Ever felt caught in the whirlwind of societal pressures, idolizing the 'perfect' body and using food as a crutch? Our guest today, Kailyn España, takes us on the rollercoaster ride of her journey with eating disorders and body-image issues. A compelling tale that spans from her initial love for sports transforming into an unhealthy obsession with exercise, to her stepping into the world of health counseling and fitness, Kaelin's story is a must-listen for anyone battling similar demons.
Unmasking the often hidden, uncomfortable topic of eating disorders, Kailyn shares her personal experiences and enlightens us with the wisdom she's gained in her journey. We explore the dangers of food worship and the harmful effects of comparison, societal pressure, and unhealthy patterns. Kailyn opened up about her journey through different diets and how she sought control through food. Through her narrative, we investigate how generational trauma, societal pressure, and misconceptions around nutrition can impact our mental and physical health.
As we wrap up this enlightening episode, we dive deeper into the importance of community, faith, and functional fitness in overcoming struggles with eating disorders. Discover how Kailyn found solace in the power of Jesus and how He stood as her rock during times of hardship. Get ready to be inspired by the wisdom she shares on living God's will and how counseling, community, and faith can play a crucial role in healing. This episode is not just Kaelin's personal narrative; it's a beacon of hope for those grappling with similar issues, offering insights and practical advice on how to regain control of their lives.
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Ever felt caught in the whirlwind of societal pressures, idolizing the 'perfect' body and using food as a crutch? Our guest today, Kailyn España, takes us on the rollercoaster ride of her journey with eating disorders and body-image issues. A compelling tale that spans from her initial love for sports transforming into an unhealthy obsession with exercise, to her stepping into the world of health counseling and fitness, Kaelin's story is a must-listen for anyone battling similar demons.
Unmasking the often hidden, uncomfortable topic of eating disorders, Kailyn shares her personal experiences and enlightens us with the wisdom she's gained in her journey. We explore the dangers of food worship and the harmful effects of comparison, societal pressure, and unhealthy patterns. Kailyn opened up about her journey through different diets and how she sought control through food. Through her narrative, we investigate how generational trauma, societal pressure, and misconceptions around nutrition can impact our mental and physical health.
As we wrap up this enlightening episode, we dive deeper into the importance of community, faith, and functional fitness in overcoming struggles with eating disorders. Discover how Kailyn found solace in the power of Jesus and how He stood as her rock during times of hardship. Get ready to be inspired by the wisdom she shares on living God's will and how counseling, community, and faith can play a crucial role in healing. This episode is not just Kaelin's personal narrative; it's a beacon of hope for those grappling with similar issues, offering insights and practical advice on how to regain control of their lives.
[END SHOW NOTES]
I would restrict, restrict, restrict and then like binge several times a week and then exercise, and it was just so disordered, and I think that the thing about that, though, is that no one moved, and everyone praised me for being like so healthy. Why are we seeking comfort in food when we know the Holy Spirit who provide comfort? I believe wholeheartedly that God just delivered me from it and healed me.
Aaron O'Connell:Welcome to the WHY to Fitness podcast. I'm your host, Aaron O'Connell, and today I am joined with Kaelin Espana. How are you doing today?
Kailyn España:Great.
Aaron O'Connell:Thanks so much for having me, oh thank you for joining and just a little background. How this all started is I've known Kaelin from church. I kind of seen her playing on the piano, then I ran into you into the the gym. Yes. And I was like, well, you're getting into the gym. Then you told me you're getting into health counseling, getting your masters correct.
Kailyn España:Yes, yes.
Aaron O'Connell:And we then were saying well, wait a minute, we need to do a podcast together.
Kailyn España:Yeah.
Aaron O'Connell:And I asked what was on your heart. And so today we are going to be talking about a few subjects, but the number one that we were really going to dive in, that I have a feeling that we're going to dive in, is the topic that touches many lives but is often hidden in the shadows. Yeah, and that's eating disorders. Yep.
Kailyn España:Touchy subject sometimes.
Aaron O'Connell:Very touchy subject, but also we're going to be talking about just that overall relationship with our own body and also exercise as well, and just the faulty mindsets that just keep us going around in circles and really imprison us. Right. So just to go off right right away, tell me just a little bit about yourself, like how you got into things, tell the listeners about it and how you even found yourself in the mental health counseling and fitness.
Kailyn España:Yeah, absolutely so. I grew up playing sports. I always loved moving my body and things like that, but as I got older and was no longer in high school, no longer playing sports, my relationship with exercise had to change, because I didn't have access to the ability to go and play basketball and have practice all the time, and so then my body started changing and we all call it the freshman 15 right, you know like it was like in the first semester I had gained so much weight because I wasn't moving my body anymore.
Kailyn España:The cafeteria food and you know the late night college binge eating when you're doing homework stuff kind of started happening, and so I found myself just absolutely in a place where I my body had changed. I hated my body and so around this time I actually moved on to South Florida and started going to like group fitness classes, which was fun, kind of accessible, since I was, you know, playing sports before and I was able to exercise with people kind of gave me that team aspect and so I enjoyed it a lot. But then I am actually it was then positively I was able to. Just the people that were working at the gym and kind of leading these group classes were like hey, you're really good at this and you seem to have a passion for it. Do you want to just work as an intern and get your certification? And so that's what I did and I was just kind of a fun thing to do, I love learning and then I got my certification. But then things kind of started shifting in my personal life where I got an opportunity to kind of work in executive administration and so that's kind of the direction that I ended up going, still just loving health and fitness in general.
Kailyn España:And then as far as the mental health side, I have always been a huge like counseling person. I love to. I mean my parents. When they got divorced we started going to counseling. I was 11 years old, and so they've always. My parents are so great that they always prioritized our mental health and so I kind of always knew it was one of those things. When I was in high school I was like always the counselor for all my friends, everyone would always come meet to me when they had issues, and so I always knew that I wanted to pursue that.
Kailyn España:I just didn't know in what way. And so I I mean you know God's so funny like I I tried to avoid that calling for so long and was like no, I'm gonna be like a nurse and I'm gonna be like executive admin and I'm gonna be a CEO and I'm gonna like whatever I did every single thing.
Kailyn España:And then God, ultimately I mean that's a whole other long story but God ultimately pulled me back into like clinical psychology, which I just finished my bachelors in, and then now I'm working on my master's in mental health counseling as well.
Aaron O'Connell:Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome and I'm in that same boat, you know I? One of the things that I would say I, and why I even started this podcast, is I just always had an obsession with asking the question why?
Kailyn España:Yes, yes, that's so true. My mom's like was she always telling me. Like I was like three and she would say I'd always ask why, always, always, always be asking why? And then eventually she would just say because God made it that way.
Aaron O'Connell:I don't know, I don't know why, caitlin. Yeah, well, that's. That's also good that she was able to say I don't know why yeah you know, because so many times people say because I said so yes, you know, she always pointed it back to God. Yeah, pointed back to God, or if you have the explanation, give the explanation but, that's.
Aaron O'Connell:That's what I always was searching for and what you know questions of why don't I do what I know I ought to do? Yeah, why do those people do that? Why are they okay with totally sitting or whatever it may be? And, like I had, I've always had the Holy Spirit. I always had his life made like a touch on me, no matter what. So, like I, I knew not to steal, not to lie, but it was also like, well, that's because I don't want to have to deal with the repercussions yeah, like it was about your reputation yeah, exactly so.
Aaron O'Connell:But like some people just blatantly didn't care about it and it's like I really got fascinated in that now I'm in getting my PhD and everything like that because I I can't stop learning, yeah, you know, even though I seem like I'm learning more outside of school because of the true passion that I have. But it really boils down to that question why which? So I don't think many people take the time to ask that question, right?
Kailyn España:100% it's. You're just kind of going through the motions and and even I love asking the as far as like why am I doing this? Like, why?
Kailyn España:why, am I reacting in this kind of way? I think that that question why is really the first step in increasing self-awareness and knowing, okay, like what, what's going on in my heart here, and kind of even just asking God that question why, where he can, he can always zoom into things that we don't want to see in our hearts and kind of just gives insight into that so which I want to start diving into, things of the idolization of food.
Aaron O'Connell:Give it like a little backstory of kind of where it kind of started of the idolization of food for you, things that you kind of went through and and also maybe getting to the point where how you can't overcome those things yeah, this is a whole whole thing.
Kailyn España:But so idolization of food, I think first just defining that I I believe any sort of obsession that is not me being obsessed with the presence of God is like is not from him, that, that kind of so when we talk about idolization, it's not like we're, you know, worshiping food, it's that we are so obsessed with it that it is affecting our day-to-day to a point that it's just not, it's not healthy, it's we're adjusting our lives around food. Food is kind of just this thing that like gives us control, whatever.
Aaron O'Connell:So that's kind of what, to the point, you know just a really brief, briefly touch on that, though I'll challenge you, sure, on the worship of the food, because just recently, at Journey Church, john McQuitty just did a sermon on worship. And we are human beings, as human beings are designed to worship.
Aaron O'Connell:Literally, we are made in his image, just us being alive is worshiping yes everything we do is worship it's just what is the focus of that worship and a lot of people don't understand that, of how worshiping it was like in the Old Testament. They're worshiping, literally, idols. They had idols for everything fertility, for crops, for, and you name it. They had an idol. They had thousands of gods, and it was all based on those actions until, obviously, jesus came and you know he did it all. So now we just can worship him? Yes, but what we focus on becomes our idol and our act of worship. Yeah, and within that, you have to ask yourself what is consuming your thoughts? Yes, in a daily basis. Yeah, it can be your image, but then from there, well, okay, you were worshiping the image which is your self, pride, selfishness, okay, but then what are you thinking about?
Aaron O'Connell:and those that are in the fitness industry overwhelming majority are focusing on food they make it an idol because you know someone that's in the Midwest, where there's just there isn't this South Florida culture yeah you know fast-paced California, new York's big city culture. They may not struggle with that as much because every around everyone around them is kind of overweight. But those that are in the gym usually are have attempted it are on their third attempt, whatever it may be, and there really is an idolization of food 100%.
Kailyn España:I love what you said to you about that. We are always worshiping and so it's just a matter of like, where? What is a thing that I'm worshiping in any given moment? You know what? I mean, and so especially, I actually grew up in the Midwest, so yeah where you from Ohio, okay, wisconsin, okay, yeah, I can hear it now.
Aaron O'Connell:So yeah, I mean it I mean talk about a culture shock.
Kailyn España:You know where I grew up, gained the weight in the Midwest, was like feeling insecure about my body. Moved to South Florida, like are you kidding me? It was just what was happening in my brain and the things that I was like. I was like, oh, I'm supposed to look a certain way, I'm supposed to do it like this. Oh, like you can't. Just I can't think of a specific chain. I mean, in Ohio it's like we do.
Kailyn España:In Cincinnati it's chili on everything and so like everyone loves, like the skyline noodles, like it's like spaghetti, but then you put chili on it and then, like as much spaghetti and chili as there is, you put cheese that's how.
Aaron O'Connell:That's how I eat my chill well, I used to eat my chili. That's how my mom does.
Kailyn España:Yeah, and that's exactly what it is and so I love that you brought that up because I guess, if we're gonna talk for to answer your question about my journey, like I grew up, it was all comfort food, and so I think that's a whole other side trailer. We can go on. I think that you know, like the emotional eating and like we're eating for comfort where it's like, why are we seeking comfort in food when, like when, we know the Holy Spirit who, like, can provide comfort? You know what I mean and but so anyway, grew up with like it being comfort food.
Kailyn España:Obviously those aren't necessarily foods that have the most nutritional value. And so as soon as I came down here in this kind of South Florida culture and learned about like what, what people are considering healthy and what is not and actually I'm sorry, let me stop myself, because even before that, so I, when living in the Midwest through high school, I actually had some health issues kind of brought on by stress, anxiety, depression, whatever, and so it was manifesting itself, you know and I. That's why now it's together for me mental health and physical health, because what was happening with my mental health was manifesting itself physically and I was having chronic pain and like all these issues.
Kailyn España:It ended up being adrenal fatigue, but it took I mean like a year to figure out what was going on. And this doctor basically said hey, you need to stop eating gluten and dairy and soy and eggs and like you know literally everything. No more processed foods, whatever. And so my, my mom and like and we have autoimmune disease in the family and so my mom like really took this seriously and basically was like, alright, you have to stop eating all of that. And like you just like, this is what you're gonna eat now.
Kailyn España:And so I think that's where it started for me, when it was like good food, bad food yes and so then it was like, okay, well, I have to do everything I can have to eat the good food, because the bad food is what's gonna like cause health issues, when in reality, like my, I just needed like mental, spiritual healing you know what I mean?
Aaron O'Connell:oh, yeah, because, and just even back up, just talking about the idolization of food and what I hate about the culture, what I in, everyone, from the furthest person away from God to the one that seems to be the closest I still hear, and why I do this podcast they are created, the way they, we speak automatically, is in a way that is creating an idol out of food. Yeah, good food, bad food, healthy food, unhealthy food there's really no such thing. It's more nutritious, less nutritious. There is no such thing as a healthy food. There isn't, because it's not about the single food. You are now giving power to that food and you are saying this has power. If I eat this, I become not only worse, but my mentality gets worse. If I feel like I'm a failure. If I eat a piece of cake when, if I drink a protein shake and have some broccoli and chicken, I now am successful. You literally have an idol determining whether you are good or bad.
Aaron O'Connell:You are determining worth based on food, and this is the same thing as bowing down to any type of idol saying it's you, I am going to act a certain way to then be able to get that blessing. I worship this food so I can get the blessing Total Old Testament, which is why people keep going around in circles and circles, because they're not experienced the freedom that Jesus offers.
Kailyn España:Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's the yoyo dieting pattern. It's because we seek our identity from this thing. I love how you said that's getting me so amped up because I'm like it's like if this thing, if that controls whether I'm good or bad, and I find my identity in that, like of course there's going to be issues around it, like there's going to be, it's going to control your life, you're going to do that yoyo dieting, you're going to, and then you're going to seek the way that food is impacting every area.
Kailyn España:It's like OK, how do I look, how do I feel? How like, what is this person think? What restaurants should I go to, like, what friends should I have because of like what eating habits they have, like, it can go into so many different things. So I love that, yeah.
Aaron O'Connell:And and and it's. It's crazy because they will pay. People pay so much attention, whether it just be on the exercise. You know you'll hear people saying like, oh, I work out six days a week, but I just can't, I can't not have that cookie. You know, that's because without my cookies, I'm a monster.
Aaron O'Connell:Yeah, right you know, there's a meme about that, you know. But like it's like, they focus on the workout which becomes their idol that is going to make them feel good, to try to balance out this negative that they know that makes them feel bad. All alone behold, they're missing the total picture of what are you entirely doing. How much?
Aaron O'Connell:how much food do you need to get to where you want to go? How much protein do you need? What is it that you need to be able to overcome the goals and the tasks and the obstacles that are standing in front of your way to achieve the purpose I got is put into you. No one asks that big total question. They just want to look for the next pattern of this world instead of offering their bodies as living sacrifice. I did a whole podcast on that. That's already out. If you haven't seen that, go check that out. But you need to look at the totality of things.
Aaron O'Connell:But people don't do that. They're not asking these questions. Why, like we were saying, and then they have their force to focus on a single thing. Because they're look, they don't want to be like, well, it's me not doing the work or it's what do I need to do. They focus it's like James and said they're in the world, but also of God, and they say it's like you look into the mirror and then when you walk away, you forget who you are.
Aaron O'Connell:You forget what you look like and when that happens, it's like I'm going to look at myself like I don't like the way that I look. But the moment you look around it's okay, let's go drink, let's go, let's go, let's go eat this. And that it's like don't you realize who you are and what you're aiming for. But they're just in and out and they're like that unsettled wave, like James one says.
Kailyn España:I think it really has to do with and the reason this happens and kind of we're mentioning is just like this aesthetics side of it. I know we're going to get to that later. Oh yeah.
Kailyn España:But where it's like, if we're focused on, okay, this food can make me look like this, this food makes me look like this, but then you kind of get caught in this, like this pattern of like okay, well, it's too hard to not eat the bad food, so whatever, just will throw it all at the window, like that all are nothing thinking.
Kailyn España:It's like that's a cognitive behavior therapy you talk about like a cognitive distortion where it's like it has to be all bad or all good, and so if we're assigning these, you know, good and bad categories to food, then all of a sudden fitness becomes all or nothing, and it's not about what can we do to sustain a healthy lifestyle that supports whatever our calling is. It becomes I want to lurk a certain way, and so I'll let myself control it in one season and then I'll let go in another season. You'll go back and forth, and I mean, ultimately, that causes so many health issues and you're just not going to feel, your heart's going to be so like unsettled, you know, like your spirit does, like we're not designed to operate that way, and so I just I think that it really starts with that like aesthetic side of it where it's like that's not, even that's not supposed to be the focus at all about why we move our body, why we fuel our body.
Kailyn España:You know what I mean. That is like the last reason that we should be concerned with.
Aaron O'Connell:You know Well, the Bible says it pretty clearly. They compare themselves, using themselves as a standard. How foolish that's what the Bible says. I forgot where it is in the Bible. I'm not, you know, I didn't have that written down, but that's what we're doing and we're that we're because it's also cultural based.
Aaron O'Connell:Yes, you know we can go to Japan, you know, and and they're not even thinking about the image. Why? Because they're all about longevity. You know that it's, they're pretty much all fit over there. Why? Because it's not about this comparison, it's just hey, we're experiencing life, we're having fun, we know we need to work. But then you can go to South Florida, and it's crazy. Comparison what you know, celebrity athletic, we're just idolizing everything. But then if we go into the middle of nowhere, you know, let's just say Kansas or wherever it is, you might get a place that just they don't care.
Aaron O'Connell:And I like what you said is you had this doctor that said, oh, you need to eliminate this, this, this and this. And let's be real, doctors are still practicing. And what they took? One course on nutrition.
Kailyn España:Yes, that's why I heard I was like I recently. I was like, oh my gosh, it's worse than I thought.
Aaron O'Connell:They really don't know and that's why they say, oh, right now they're trying to push don't eat meat, eat all these other things you know like. Eat soy products, eat all these grains and it's like well, that lines their pocket, it makes big pharma go. But that's a whole big story inside of itself. But I really liked what you said is it came down to the stress. It came down to it.
Aaron O'Connell:And if you could actually pull up that verse and Mark seven, jesus said it so well and I'll just start reading from it. And it says in verse 15, it's not what goes into your body that defiles you. You are defiled. What comes from your own heart. And then his disciples are like don't know what you mean. It's like you don't understand. He goes can't you see that food you put into your body can't defile you? Food doesn't go into your heart, but it only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer. And he goes. And he added it's what comes from inside that defiles you. From within one person's heart come evil thoughts. Sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these vile things come from within and they're what defile you. And I always say you could be doing all the right things and if you're stressing to do those, you are going to have some major problems.
Kailyn España:Yup 100%. It's not, I mean I that way I always say it is like there is no scenario in which maintaining a lifestyle that has you in your dream body, if you are stressed about it, that is like way worse for your health because of what's happening mentally and spiritually, you know what.
Kailyn España:I mean Like it's that there's and that the way we talk about health too, I mean it's like mental, physical, spiritual health. It's like if your physical health is like off the chain, but like you are mentally and spiritually just like depleted, like, what kind of health is that there's? What kind of lifestyle is that?
Aaron O'Connell:Exactly. That's why we're seeing heart attacks at 35.
Kailyn España:People are stressing.
Aaron O'Connell:We're seeing skinny people doing cross but doing crazy things, but they're pre diabetic. Yes, you know, not to mention just the over. Just the over, like abundance of depression, anxiety and all these other things. And our eight are our disease rate is going up, our death rate is going up, our average life expectancy is going down, yet we have all these new things, and that's because it's the joy of the Lord, of your, is your strength. He is the only one that brings healing to our bodies and our bones. Is what Psalm says. And it's really what, boy, when I say success is peace of mind and heart. It's the person that has the most peace of mind and heart over any area of the body is going to be the most successful 100% because I like giving this analogy.
Aaron O'Connell:You'll see it all the time. You got you know, let's just say, backwood Billy smoking on a cigarette, and he's 98 years old, he's been spoken since he's 13. But his attitude about it is like oh man, I just love these cigarettes. Man, if I don't got my cigarette, you know, I don't even need to think about not having that cigarette, because I just got my cigarette makes me just feel so good because I'm out here working my land, doing all these things and you're just like well, there's just this piece about him. He may not know the Lord, but there's this piece about him where, if there's another person smoking cigarettes and, like man, I'm just so stressed I need a cigarette. I know I shouldn't be doing these things, but I just need them.
Aaron O'Connell:One would have to argue is it the cigarette that's really killing you, because I can show you many old people that have been smoking cigarettes for a while or is it the actual knowledge that you are stressed and that you know you're doing wrong? You know which one is it? Because you know, because God gave us this body that can create anything, any type of drug. If we think we're on a pain medication, we can do. We can create a pain medication just from believing we're on it a hundred times more powerful than morphine. If I think you're on a can give you a fake cancer drug and you think you're on the cancer drug, your gums are going to start bleeding, your hair is going to start falling out simply because you thought it. The placebo effect is real, but it's really that power of the mind and what you think you become, and people don't understand that. So you can be doing all these right things. I'll stop talking here in just a second.
Kailyn España:It's great, keep going.
Aaron O'Connell:But it's what, how you're doing.
Aaron O'Connell:what you're doing is so much more important than what you're doing, mm hmm, Let me say that again how you're doing what you're doing is so much more important than what you're doing, because it's that free ness. Are you what you're doing? If you're struggling, having anxiety, depression, struggle, whatever it may be doing the right thing or the wrong thing? That is the issue, it doesn't matter. But if you are sitting there with peace peace you could be doing the wrong thing and it's going to be so less damaging 100%.
Kailyn España:Even I really liked your example of that was Billy.
Aaron O'Connell:Backwoods Billy.
Kailyn España:I liked it and it made me think about food and kind of. You know, further along in my journey, when it I was, when I was struggling with food, it was like oh, no, no, no, no, no, I can't have one cookie. Because if I have one cookie, you know my stomach hurts. This like certainly not get a headache, and you know I just get bloated and whatever. And it's like here's a thing I mean what like the Bible talks about, I think in James, talking about our words having the power of life and death. And so if I say if I eat that cookie, I'm going to have a stomach ache, I'm going to get a stomach ache because that's how the brain works. You know what I mean and what you're saying to you.
Kailyn España:Like those that's actually like a thing of psychosomatic illness where, like if you just with the cancer drug, if you think that you're going to have something that's going to kill you, like it's going to kill you because you're you're, you've spoken that out, and like what happens spiritually when something's spoken out, but also what happens like in your brain, where it's like okay, cool, like we make what our thoughts and our words are into reality. And so for me, when I was trying to go through this process of figuring out food, I when I would have this mentality of oh, if I have one cookie or one bite of one thing, my stomach's going to hurt and I'm going to feel bad. Versus now I can enjoy a cookie and it's it's not like, oh, I have a really sensitive stomach, it's just that I'm not. I'm not having this mentality of it's really bad and it's really going to hurt me. I'm like, oh, it's actually, it's just one cookie and it's going to be fine. And now, is allowing me, I can enjoy that without freaking out you know.
Aaron O'Connell:So let me just ask you the question further that story what were some of the these struggles, the eating disorders that you started going through? You can say how they happened or what, just what they were.
Kailyn España:Yeah, so I'll kind of pick it up on my story a little bit.
Kailyn España:So after that doctor basically said good food, bad food. It was like I went through so many diets of just, and it was so innocent because it was I was. It wasn't about how I looked at first, it was about like how I felt. And so I said, okay, well, if I need to have this super, super restrictive diet so that I can just feel better in my body, like like okay, like that's, I'm going to do that, and so that's kind of where it started. I was doing that for a little bit here and then what ended up happening was I was so obsessed I mean you become. You know, if I, if someone gives you the perfect method of healing, you know it's like you're going to become obsessed. So I had so many actually I still have a cookbook, so they're like on the bottom of this book but like so many cookbooks, so many ways to like make healthy food, and so then I mean it's like it started controlling my life where, like I wasn't going out with friends because I couldn't find anything gluten or dairy free there, like you know, and so I, in this kind of scenario, went on that for a few years then gained the weight. I was eating gluten free, I was eating dairy free, I was doing all the things, but then I ended up gaining weight in that college split period and was like what's going on? I was feeling so just horrible in my body.
Kailyn España:Moved down to Florida and then my stress kind of like alleviated, I kind of got out of just an environment that was causing a lot of stress and I felt better and so I was like, hey, I can start maybe just like trying to eat like some of the bad food. And anyway, it was a cycle over and over again where I basically was eating, and then just a new diet. I was vegan for a little bit and then I tried keto, and then I tried all these other things just trying to lose some weight, and nothing was really working and I was really stressed out about it. And so there was again talking about the mental and physical manifestations of how that kind of works. It was a weird thing where I was getting really stressed and having a lot of anxiety, and so what started happening was I just was looking for something to control. I actually struggled with a lot of obsessive, compulsive, like OCD tendencies and I was just kind of going through some mental health things and then I realized that something I could control was the food. And so I kind of for the first phase there I was just like restricting and restricting and restricting and not eating things. I was eating just fruits and vegetables.
Kailyn España:At a certain point I had done the actually, this is get this. I had done the Daniel fast for the first time and it was. I was so not focused on my body, I was so good time with the Lord. But then I realized, like the few people that said like, oh, it looks like you lost some weight. And I was like, oh, if I just keep eating fruit and vegetables and nothing else, then maybe I'll lose more weight. And so then I started Daniel fasting, but not for the Lord, so fast, like just eating nothing, basically lost weight. People complimented on it and it's like it was kind of just a cycle. And so then I that kind of turned into like I was eating so little, there were so many foods that were on my bad list that like I didn't even know what to like eat that I just wouldn't. And so that happened a lot.
Kailyn España:And then I started exercising more and kind of got into this really unhealthy phase. I sustained that for a lot longer than I am. I'm surprised how long I sustained that. I just like had no carbs. I was like working out twice a day. It was like so you know what? I mean? We've all, we've all been there right. Then, from there, it kind of turned into. I couldn't sustain anymore. My body was just like, I mean, I was starved. I was just like starving all the time, and so I would restrict, restrict, restrict and then like binge several times a week where I'm in an exercise, and it was just so disordered, and I think that the thing about that, though, is that no one knew, and everyone, instead of everyone, praised me for being like so healthy, because when I would eat, you know, I couldn't. I would never. If we go out to like a burger place, I would never order a burger. I'd order a salad, or you know, a burger without the bun and cut it up into a salad or you know, whatever the healthy option.
Kailyn España:And so I was known as, like this healthy person and it just got, I mean spiraling down, down, down. And so I mean I, it was my identity. I said I have to like, I have to upkeep this, this image among my peers that I'm really healthy. And so if I in my head I was like, but if I start eating again, then I'm going to gain weight and everyone's going to think that I'm not healthy anymore, and it just you know what I mean.
Kailyn España:It just, and it was, it's a cycle, and you just keep going down and down further, and so I mean I tried every diet, everything and so, and then do you want me to kind of tell about how getting out of that too, or do you want to sit?
Aaron O'Connell:on that for a minute. Well, yeah, we'll sit on that just for a little minute, because you've said a lot of things and I've, I've, I've struggled with it too, and I'll talk about that in just a moment, but it's that. There's two things that I really see and hear from you from it was me, but anyone that's really going through eating disorders is its feelings of inadequacy and also the relentless pursuit to keep up with worldly standards. And, unfortunately, why I'm doing this podcast is most people don't even know what health looks like. They. They, like you said, they praise.
Aaron O'Connell:We as humans praise the hard work, but we demonize the person that doesn't hard work. It's hard Like oh, you're doing a two-it, you're working out twice a day, good job. Like it's a good thing, you know whatever you know. Oh, you're on this diet, way to go. It's always this like praise, because we as a society are saying, hey, we need to look this way, this is what health is. When you show me some like an overweight person that's working out is getting more calories than normal, but they're mostly good, they're probably a lot healthier than the person that, let's just say, when you were relentlessly pursuing the Daniel fast, because a lot of people don't understand how many calories you really need to sustain yourself. Like, put it this way, if we were to go into an RMR calculator and say what, which is your resting metabolic rate? For those that don't know how many the minimal calories does a 70 year old grandma that is sedentary need? Sedentary, not even working out? Grandma, 70 years old, and just so you know, metabolism slows down when you get older and the number is right around 13 to 1400 calories. This is to maintain your heart, your lungs, your vision, your brain, your hormones, your thyroid, just to keep those going. This is a seven year old grandma. Now enter in a 30 year old woman or male, 18 year old woman or male, 40, whatever it is that is now working out three, four, five times a week. And to be active in these RMR calculators, all you need to do is walk at a pace that's like slightly more faster than walking three to five miles. They don't know the studies that bashing your chest and ripping those muscles, the shreds from just doing an hour long chest workout or putting like loading up the squat rack and then going to the leg press and doing all these things, what type of damage and what needs to be done for the rest of your body not to have a negative effect. They, they. There isn't really any studies that do that. They're starting to come out, but they're more still focused on how to increase strength or size, not so much longevity.
Aaron O'Connell:And me. This is why I constantly ask why and it's like wait a minute For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, somebody that's doing that. This explains why we're getting seeing so much less healthy people when they get older. This explains why some women struggle with menopause so hard but some don't. What is the difference?
Aaron O'Connell:It's well, when you become into motherhood, you know, I, I, I have seen it, you know and I'm most of my clients were always women that I dealt with. Well, what happens? You know, barely have any time for yourself. Your routine that you had of activity kind of goes down the drain. You're kind of just sitting there, You're kind of watching, you're kind of always stressed, all these other things. You're not getting the enough calories, you're constantly just up all night. All you're not getting the sleep that affects you so much.
Aaron O'Connell:And if this happens at 30, well, yeah, your body's going to take about 18 years. 18 years and all of a sudden call boom, things shut down. Well, was it? Because it's just the age? Oh, it's that age menopause, you know. It's like, well, what about that 50 year old that never went through it? Oh, that was it. They're just lucky, see, you know.
Aaron O'Connell:And it's like no, no, no, no. Look at, you have to really look at and offer your body's living sacrifice. Look at where you've been and you're like well, I haven't been feeding myself, I haven't been sleeping, I haven't been doing all these things. And when you're constantly working, working, working just to back off from the menopause example, but a male or whatever it is, and you're working out so hard but you're not feeding yourself, well, guess what happens? The testosterone levels plummet. Estrogen will plummet for women, you know and things just start getting. Hey, thyroid hormones will plummet. Why? Because it's trying to be efficient. It needs to do the work, because you're forcing it to do the work with very little calories. So what is going to be the most efficient thing that a body can do? Well, I'm going to start shutting off my hormone production because I'll save me like 900 calories a day, you know. And they just start dwindling, dwindling, and oh, let's see, we need to be healthy. Your testosterone levels aren't a little high enough, I'm going to give you a shot of steroids and now you're going to be feeling great.
Aaron O'Connell:You didn't fix the problem. You didn't put more wood into the fire. Your fire is going down and you're like, wait a minute, I need to go. So you're just taking the lighter fluid and just onto the fire, which makes you feel great, but no one's done the one term studies. That's happening. You're then relying on this external energy source and things are just going downhill, downhill and no, it's going to be crazy how many 70-year-olds are injecting themselves with over a gram of testosterone just to try to stay alive, if they make it that long. But like it's crazy that people don't see that whole thing and needing that and when you aren't getting what you need and you're under eating, doing all those things, it will show up in every area of health.
Kailyn España:I'm glad you said that because I'm not feeling convicted to share. So I guess it's almost been two years now. My thyroid shut down, I was diagnosed with autoimmune disease and it's funny because my family was like, oh, you shouldn't have been eating the gluten, you should have been off the gluten this whole time. Yeah, I'm like you can't do what I did and restrict and then binge and then diet this way and then diet that way and then whatever all of that, and then not experience some sort of issue. And so you kept saying thyroid and I was like okay.
Aaron O'Connell:So I was like I'll share.
Kailyn España:So, yeah, I mean, that is a part of my story too, and so I am so thankful. I believe wholeheartedly that God just delivered me from it and healed me and he does, and so but I am so thankful that in that process, though, he showed me how to have grace on myself, because what we can't operate if we're operating out of food or working out food I have like a shame, guilt thing, like shame and guilt is not of the Lord, and as soon as I was able to be released from that and I was able to be just really surrendered to him like my body and like what I put into it, I was dealing with so much like chronic pain and issues, and that is all gone now.
Kailyn España:Like praise God all blessings flow Like. But I just, I just feel like I have to share, because On the outside you'd like, oh, like she's like the you know she's so fit and she works out and she takes care of herself. And it was like I was, I was not taking care of myself, and so much to the point that I really threw myself into an autoimmune disease. That was completely unnecessary, had I just stopped focusing on how I look and how.
Kailyn España:How. How I look in not only my body, but how I look to people being so healthy, and I actually just stopped focusing on that and just focused on like taking care of my body and like being a temple of the Holy Spirit and just like honoring it. That wouldn't have happened, you know.
Aaron O'Connell:Yeah, and you know a lot of people Blame. Let's just say they're genetics, sure they, you know. Even like you said, you know how do we mean. Disorders run in my family. Well, I bet you're stressed. Those too, the when your parents were raising you at six, seven, nine, whatever they have been may have been putting this unhealthy Like standard on you, where you just felt like you were never good enough. So you felt like you need to be perfect and you were just constantly Stressed, and you didn't know this as a child. Why? Because your parents Felt it had parents like that that put them under the same amount of stress. They didn't feel like they were enough. So that what as parents do? Well, I didn't do it right, so I'm gonna make sure my kids do it right. But kids don't do what you say, they do what you do. Mm-hmm period, and while the foods you were eating were the foods you fed them. You know, and People always want to say well, genetics or it's.
Aaron O'Connell:It runs in my family. It's like well, so do all the other patterns that you're taking care of? Because, like autoimmune, well, your body doesn't just start attacking your immune system for no reason, right? Yes, I'm sure there's cases out there that they felt like they were the happiest person in the world and the devil can attack. Just go look at Job. I completely understand that, but where how you respond is really what's gonna be dictating like. Are you that person that is constantly struggling, not feeling like you're enough, feeling like that the world or there's a method out there that is gonna change you, instead of really going and saying wait a minute, how do I really experience peace? And and we first? Peter 3, 34 is a Extremely awesome reminder because it says true beauty doesn't come from outward experience, mm-hmm, but from a gentle and quiet spirit. So good and that gentle and quiet Spirit.
Aaron O'Connell:People really overlook that. That's what I do within my business is I help people achieve peace of mind and heart Over every area of their body. How do I do that? By helping them overcome the spiritual, mental and physical Obstacles standing in front of their way of doing that. But that is my product. I don't. I don't know what that looks like.
Aaron O'Connell:You can stay fat the whole time, I don't care. Do you have peace of mind and heart about it? You probably don't and it'll not. But if you're searching for peace of mind and heart, you have to do the things that automatically need to be done. But the moment you beat yourself up for not doing it, you are not now not going after that goal. You're go, you're back into the wrong goal, you're back into the weight goal, which means nothing. But if the goal is peace of mind and heart and you just apply that in every area relationships, peace of mind and heart that means you should be doing what you're doing. I am loving, I am not cheating. I am not lying. I am not doing being in places. That I'm not finances. I am doing the saving, I am doing the investing. I am not buying frivolous things. Peace of mind and heart. Is that true success, and that's what true beauty, according to Peter is saying, is that gentle, quiet Spirit so good.
Kailyn España:Seriously, I and I think a quiet, gentle spirit was not something that I Inherited. I love my parents. I love my parents, but that that can be generational and we can play, I mean it's I Agree with you of like these things are not, like these health issues. I think nine times out of ten, maybe even more, not than nine times out of ten overwhelming majority of the time.
Kailyn España:Yes it is. It is you learned really unhealthy patterns from, from your parents, on how to cope, and and now it's coming out in your body. You know what I mean. And so I think that even like generational curses, if you will maybe like another phrase for it where it's like okay, if we're, if our spirits are troubled, that's gonna, that's gonna come out in our bodies, and so I just I love, I love the way you emphasize that verse.
Aaron O'Connell:Yeah, and you know, because I I come from a Overjudgmental type of family as well. You know that's one of the biggest things that people have a problem with. You know my parents, you know me, you know through those types of things and that's how I got into bodybuilding and just I'll even break it down just for a little bit on my side is is I.
Aaron O'Connell:I was a baseball player. I was very gifted. I was thrown 91. When I was 13 and I was lived in Wisconsin and I Two older sisters, lived in Wisconsin on a farm you know like, or at least next to the farm. Not many male in people like Influences in my life. Dad was kind of outside, always work in type of thing, but I was in baseball and then we scout, got scouted, came down and Went and got into a team that was like three years older than me. They all were threatened. They end up saying oh, he's weird.
Aaron O'Connell:So he's gay.
Aaron O'Connell:I don't want to sleep with him on that in his room I'll trim up into a room that only supposed to have two into three because I don't want to be with him Type in like. Those were the types of feelings that I was having. So I started working out to feel like I was enough To make it for an out, that outward validation to be manly because clearly I have female tendencies, because I grew up with females I think it's a fantastic thing. Now I love that, everything that I, and wouldn't change a darn thing in the world. But I really got that um desire to be like that super hero and Really start going into that level. And then, low and behold, I. I was gifted and I was active and I Constantly asking why and how can I do less effort to get more results and those types of things.
Aaron O'Connell:I then got into bodybuilding and and during that time men's physique came out and I was like whoa, I can truly compete now I don't have to be this huge dude. And but like I started steroids at 17 and I didn't do it right either, I took the worst, one of the most powerful ones, trend below and acetate trend, with no test, no post-psychotherapy, nothing. At 17 years old it was actually phenoplex caplets, which is what it dried off, cooked in a basement, so like it wasn't even from a name. It was literally looked like sweet tea. It was like a hundred and thirty four milligrams, when it's like everything, nothing is measured in that amount. But this is what the guy said and like, sure enough, amazingly hard and and just vascular, because that's what you do at the end of like a competition. You get the test out for like a week or two and just have the trend and you just get so incredibly grainy and just vascular Because test holds water a little bit. But I did the first, like two cycles just of that, no test. Then I was like, oh, man, I haven't been doing tests. So then I started getting into that. Oh, then it was like, oh, I need to get into post-psychotherapy, didn't know any of these and it screwed up my mind so much Incredible amounts.
Aaron O'Connell:But within that, within the bodybuilding, I then Wasn't doing it for the right reasons. I wasn't obsessed with just becoming better or challenging myself. It was to be enough to be accepted. It's the only way I got praise. You know, it's the way that you couldn't make fun of me. Lo and behold, people then made fun of me still, you know Like, oh, how do you turn? He must have sucked some judge off if he turned pro that quickly. No one does that like. Somebody literally said that to me and but that's why it was never enough. If I had the, if I looked the best in the gym, I would have the best day. But then the moment somebody else came that looked better than me, I would want to hide like there's no tomorrow. But not only that. If I did anything not according to my plan, I felt like I was a failure and it started really controlling me and I was my own coach all the way through turn pro, being my own coach. But the problem with that was is no one else was there to hold me accountable.
Aaron O'Connell:And the moment I ate one little cookie and it usually didn't start that way, it was more of I got done with the food and I struggled with smoking marijuana as well, and I'd be smoking and I'd be good for three weeks, two weeks, whatever it be. And then all of a sudden, I'm really hungry. You know what? I'm gonna eat one of the meals for tomorrow, today. So then I eat that meal and I'm like All right, I'm gonna eat the rest of the meals that day and I'll just fast tomorrow and I'd eat that whole meal and then I'd be like, no, I've screwed up, I'm not. I might as well just capitalize on this and I would go and spend 40, 50 dollars at a convenience store I'm just crap like every single thing I've ever wanted. You know, I would get the piece of the pizza, the Oreos, that everything like, because usually Walmart around me wasn't open, like I wish it was, but I didn't, because then I'd have the whole Package of package of Oreos instead of the individual candy bars. But I would eat so much to the point that if I bent over I'd puke. It'd be so stuffed and I'd feel so bad about myself that I start sticking my finger down my throat Because, like I wasn't doing it so much for, oh, I feel like I'm so fat.
Aaron O'Connell:No, I was in a competition, but it was still the same premise around it of comparison amongst other people. It's just my, my boundaries were moved and that's all. And that's one thing I got to say is no matter where you are, the six pack, your biceps are great. So you get this big, you're that skinny, whatever it is, all it's gonna do is just move the boundaries. That's why the fitness industry has to say never be satisfied, because they it can't satisfy.
Aaron O'Connell:But I would just sit there and just throw up, throw up, throw up to a point where I would have so much Redness in my eyes and then, once I got done with that, I've been like, well, it's all out, let's do it again. And I'd do it again and throw up and like I gave myself a hermit, like two hernias doing that, and it would just be this Process and and then you would get to the point where I'm working out and blood would just start coming down my nose Cuz I was just putting myself under so much pressure of eating a lot, eating too little, which then went into the binge eating disorder that I struggled for so long, where it'd be like I eat so good these days and then it's like and off the rails. But for me, luckily, it was. I always ate too much.
Aaron O'Connell:But most people that that I've come across that I train People don't believe me when I say this. If you're already in the gym and you're wanting a personal trainer, the likelihood that you're eating too little is like 99 out of 100. But unfortunately, all of the workout and diet advice is geared to people that don't work out and are super fat and don't care. But the only people that are taking it are the ones that are super trying and super trying to care and they eat so little and they're like I said before. Their Metabolisms get so low, so low, and then all of a sudden their body's like you need food and then they go and eat the crappiest of nutrition in the largest amounts, which just gets all stored, which then they go and fast one day or eat too little, and it becomes this cycle that Just ends up destroying your body.
Kailyn España:No, thank you so much for sharing all that, because I think it we just don't talk about it enough and. I we were talking about earlier is like, when we start bringing these things into the light, it's like someone hearing this or hearing like a story like that can be like wait, I Do that too and I think that sometimes a lot like and maybe for you, even when you're in that situation, it's like it's hard to even know because the boundaries kept getting moved. It's hard to know, like, how far you've gone.
Kailyn España:Yeah until you're kind of looking back and you're like wait a second, like how did I even get here? You know what I mean. But yeah, I work with I mean most mostly women, not, not on purpose it just kind of happened that way and I so many of them skip breakfast, have a huge lunch and then, like, skip dinner and then snack. That's like that's the typical eating pattern. Or skip breakfast, have an insane amount of caffeine. Mm-hmm.
Kailyn España:And it just. It's just interesting, though, and I feel I feel frustrated. I'm happy that I'm in this field because I, you know, growing up with like my story, it's like I knew a lot about like nutrition. I just didn't, you know, I obviously went in a bad way about it. But there's so many people that are just listening to these ads, like you know, of this business, of the. You have the fitness industry and then you have, like this diet industry, and they're just like using these ads of something that's trying to tell, sell you something, to give you like the, the right thing of like what I'm supposed to be eating or what I'm supposed To be doing. And so it's crazy how many people I've worked with where it's like, hey, actually, you know, skipping breakfast isn't, isn't good for you, like you should, you should probably have some calories, like your metabolism slowed down. And then when you Drink, you know, three Celsius is before it's noon I literally like as they're adrenal glands.
Kailyn España:I'm like, yeah, your body doesn't like that. And they're like I just have no energy. I'm like try eating breakfast high protein. Just try this week. We'll do that, Then let me know how you feeling and they come back and they're like this is crazy. And I'm like I mean it is crazy, but it's crazy that like this is something like they've made this many years of their life without knowing this. And I'm the one to tell you, hey, if you eat food, you actually have energy and they're like what?
Aaron O'Connell:And just for a caveat, breakfast stands for break fast, yes, and they say that it's the most important meal of the day, but no one really said when you need to eat it. But when you get done with that window of not eating, what you first put into your body is the most important. Most people put that croissant, that ice coffee, that double swirl I don't know, I don't go to Starbucks. It's so sugar-laden, whatever it is, energy drinks that have the carbs, and all that and that sets the tone of just like, wait a minute, I have these nasty, these nasty urges, but lo and behold, they're not getting that protein, they're not getting what really will sustain them. And then things start going worse. They start adding cellulite in little areas that they don't and then they're like well, that just means I need to work it out harder, like the amount of people, especially women, when they're like oh, I'm trying to grow my butt or get rid of all this cellulite off my butt, whatever it is. So I work out my legs two times a week, three times a week, and I'm like but your arms look great and you barely hit them. Your lower body looks bad because all you are is breaking it down, breaking it down, breaking it down two, three times a week, and then you don't have any utensils or any materials to build it back up.
Aaron O'Connell:It's like let's go and demolish, take this house and let's just start swinging hammers without the proper materials. You just start swinging the hammer, just keep on hitting it, and all of a sudden it's like well, now we just have a destroyed thing, but we need to try to show progress. So then we just kind of put the okay bosses around, let's put up these materials yeah, we're working. But then all of a sudden it just goes. Once they go away, they're like well, if we keep swinging our hammers, we need to, this is not going to be good. So when the boss goes away, they stop swinging and they just shut down because or else your body is going to die.
Aaron O'Connell:And so many people are going through that perpetual state of just stress. Where then it affected? Where they're running off a caffeine, they're running off all whatever hormones from the outside and their sleep is horrible. And what I always tell people is like, if you're not eating enough and you try to go to sleep, your body's not going to want to go into that restful state because it's scared it's going to die. Yes, it's like am I going to eat?
Kailyn España:Like what's? We're in survival mode right now. What's going on? We're in survival mode.
Aaron O'Connell:Why am I going to allow me to go into deep sleep and REM, where all the repair happens? I don't have anything to repair with. I'm not going to let you go into that deep sleep or that REM sleep, because if it will, I'm going to be drawing from nothing and your heart may just stop. That is what is happening. So then, when we put any type of external more stress onto it pollution, covid shot, whatever it may be I'll put it in there. I love it.
Aaron O'Connell:You know, if you put that in there, because you can take the COVID shot and you can be just like, hey, be like. Peter got bit with the snake. Everyone expected him to die, but he didn't. He had peace of mind and heart. So what, get out of here. I'm trusting God's power. That was his mindset. But if you're in constant state of fear, constant state of stress, you're not eating enough, which is more stress. You're not getting the sleep. Okay, your body's gotten used to that. All it's going to take is one COVID flu, one COVID shot that could literally just kill you, and then everyone goes. It's COVID, it was the shot. No, it wasn't.
Aaron O'Connell:It was the totality of everything that you're doing.
Kailyn España:Yeah, it's usually not one thing ever in general that would like take someone out like that, and so you have all this horrible recovery. I mean, it's even, it's like it's almost worse for people that are going to the gym. I'm like, if you do not start eating, this is this becomes more dangerous for your body.
Aaron O'Connell:I actually made an article a long time ago why working out is bad for you. Yeah, and like I don't think people get it is like most people that are in the gym should not be in the gym. First off, no one said you need to lift weights, like that's an activity that, yes, will usually push that stress onto you, but if you're not feeding yourself, you're just going to temporarily get better that's what everyone measures themselves and then it's just going to get worse later.
Kailyn España:Right, we're, we're not training, and this is something you mentioned earlier. This, the longevity.
Aaron O'Connell:Yes.
Kailyn España:And this is a big part of of training, because when we're looking at this short term kind of outcome, that's when we get like really extreme, you know kind of approaches, I mean. But I think about, like just breaking this down is something I just thought of is look at exercise and what it's become. This it's a whole industry diet, fitness, all this stuff. But like, look, pre-industrial revolution, which is like not that I mean in the grand scheme of time, was not that long ago, under something years ago, whatever.
Kailyn España:We weren't going to the gym Like that wasn't a thing, because they were moving in their everyday life. Like God designed our bodies, you know, to be out in the fields and doing these things and moving. All of a sudden, now we're sitting in sedentary and, no, it's less and less. I mean post like post COVID now too even less and less and less and less. We're just going on this like sharp decline where we're not moving our bodies. So we're like, okay, we need to go do a really intense hit workout to like make up for that.
Kailyn España:But I have so many clients that will think, okay, I'll do, you know, an hour three times a week and we'll go really hard, but then I'm just going to sit, I'm not going to move my body, I'm not going to walk, I'm not going to take, like eat, any foods. I thought I was like, yeah, it's like it's one plus one equals two. Right, you know, but it's like we were. When we're operating in the way that we were designed to operate is when we're going to experience really the true benefits from exercise, where we're just feeling better in our bodies for the long term.
Aaron O'Connell:So I'm going to go look at Mary and Joseph. Oh, and they just had to get up while Mary was pregnant and travel all the way down here. Oh, and now, now you're in Bethlehem, actually, hired is about to get you, so go to Egypt now. Okay, you're done being in Egypt.
Aaron O'Connell:They weren't taking cars, they're taking mules, and traveling traveling, walking, all these things, like there's so much walking involved in it. But also, just to even say it like because one thing that, as Christians, we know is our bodies are temples. But if we look in the Old Testament, how many rules were there to actually talk about? Maintain the proper order of the food first eat this, do this, this is for the Levites, this is for the. This there is true structure that will maintain our temples too. But we also have to make sure that, like Jesus said, I prefer obedience over sacrifice. That's so good.
Aaron O'Connell:But it didn't say that sacrifice is bad, the that way of keeping the temple and how things should be on that Old Testament. But you prefer that obedience, that much more. But there are true things that are going to be beneficial to us. Eat more protein, eat an ample amount. If you go, look at an athlete, tell me one athlete that thinks operating in a deficit is good. Not one, not one. Tell me anything in the world that you would want to operate out of a deficit. There isn't one.
Kailyn España:It's a bodybuilding thing that we've like. I feel like that's the thing, like bodybuilding has taken. It's a sport. It's a. Thing. And now we've just translated this over because so many fitness like professionals are into bodybuilding. We've just taken this way of life and translate it to general population and I'm like dude, don't even start it.
Aaron O'Connell:You can't be working out of that deficit is just not designed that way and like you will go into a deficit just by working out harder. You know if you're eating that amount and it'll just naturally become what you want to. You look at the football players. You look at all the athletes, the true runners, the Olympians, women, men, whatever. Their bodies are amazing and they're so capable as well. But that's because they're sitting there and feeling it not operating out of a deficit, and that I just wish people would get is like stop purposely putting yourself there. All it will take for you to be in a deficit per se is go get up and do a one mile walk with your daughter.
Kailyn España:And then you're living. You know what I mean. It's like you're there's things that we can add to life rather than take away. You know what I?
Aaron O'Connell:mean, and just just to kind of close off and then kind of dive just a little bit more into the exercise things on that eating disorder. I do want to say, though, that you do need a community for help, and Galatians six two reminds us to bear each other's burdens, and I've heard it's being said that we go to God for forgiveness, but we go to God's community, others for healing. Amen, because then you will be able to hear people like our stories. You'll get people to bring and lift you up when you were down, because the devil is roaming around looking for someone to devour, not for people to devour someone, which means you're isolated. And that's where all the mental issues happen. That's where the devil will be whispering in your ear, that's when you will feel like you're not enough.
Aaron O'Connell:But if you're surrounded with a community of believers, it will be so much harder to not forget your identity. Because that's what's happening is people aren't basing their identity in Christ, chosen, woefully, wonderfully made, and that's what's happening is they're taking advantage of our God breathed bodies. God breathe life into humans. No one, no other living thing, has God's breath in us. That is why we, every breath, says you know, we are meant to worship. That's what we were saying before. But we have this God breath in us. We are made in God's image. All we have to do is reach out for the tree of life and Eden. We would have lived forever. Now we know that the tree of life is Jesus and when we have that relationship with him we get to live forever. But within that, we need to look at it as saying, hey, we can't be putting too much effort and care about our bodies instead of what our bodies are designed for and that is to work the land, that is to enjoy our lives, that is to subdue the land and just to worship him and be in community.
Aaron O'Connell:Because if you look, there's a new propaganda blue zones out there on Netflix of how to eat the proper way and everything was like oh, it's the, yeah, I'm into this and you go look at it. It's like he just keeps on naming off exercise and this and this and this, and he demonizes all these like meats and stuff. But oh, but there's a cattle farm right there. Oh, there's all these other you know, but they're demonized as propaganda. But I've heard from a long time ago. I was listening to the Tim Ferriss podcast and they were talking about blue zones and he did one, and there was only one thing that actually mattered for people in blue zones, by the way, are the highest 100 year olds per capita. There was only one thing, and that was what the documentary did show, and it's that they are in touch with the family unit 100% the grandma and the grandpa are at the most high esteemed and usually their kids are, and they're are living in the same house.
Aaron O'Connell:They're not put off into a home, but they that grandma, grandpa are still controlling the hard work, they're still active in everything, and it's that community that is really what's helping, because that's where the burdens are then buried, through those that are truly caring about you, your family, and that's why, if you don't have that community, I highly suggest finding a counselor, finding and getting into a church, a small group, to be able to bury your feelings into that, because that's where freedom is going to be found.
Kailyn España:Amen, amen. I love that it's. It's what we were talking about earlier. It's like if we are in the shadows, trying to struggle with these eating disorders, trying to struggle with whatever we're struggling with, that's where the enemy can start speaking lies, and and we don't have peace if we don't have people in our lives echoing the father's voice about what he says about our identity.
Kailyn España:We'll reach for food to tell us what our identity is we'll reach for for exercise to like help us to achieve whatever identity we want us to be, and so I absolutely love that.
Aaron O'Connell:It's so, so great, because we because, like I said, we have that God breath remain image and people are just hijacking that they're. They're like oh well, you know what I'm. I'm 19 years old, I can eat what I want, I can do what I want. It doesn't affect me. It's like not yet you know like and they abuse it. They, they're smoking, they're vaping, they're doing all these net and you know they're drinking constantly, getting not much sleep, and it's because our bodies were made in his image and we're literally taking advantage of that and pushing it to the brink. And then, all of a sudden, when it breaks, we don't want to take responsibility of it. So we have to focus on it's COVID's fault, it's, it's this fault. It's because you ate the meat, it's because you had that, it's because you put deodorant with aluminum underneath there. Do you have dementia? You know it's like.
Aaron O'Connell:No, maybe that person just didn't have any interaction with people and it wasn't pushing their brains and asking the hard questions, because they were so distraught their whole entire life, so everything seems so meaningless.
Aaron O'Connell:They kept working so hard but their kids didn't even love them and they went over here and they're just sitting there beating themselves up that their mind actually went crazy. You know, we don't ask those questions and unfortunately, and one bone that I have to pick with counseling is counseling is really good for her comfort, for being able to reveal problems, but very rarely does it ever heal God. You know, god is the one that heals, he is the one that has that power, because you'll see people in counseling constantly, constantly. But that's because the counselors are just there kind of labeling you, you have bipolarness, because you exhibit this thing, so you must do XYZ. Oh, you have that chronic you know that that autoimmune disorder. So you got to avoid this, this and this. Because everyone's trying to find worth and find significance in this life and in the doctor, counselor, psychology world. All they're doing is a cheap knockoff of what the Bible says, but they're doing the they're, they're denying their bodies, they're doing all these rituals but denying the very power that could truly heal them.
Kailyn España:Yeah, ultimately Jesus is the, the wonderful counselor, right yeah.
Aaron O'Connell:Jehovah Rafa, our healer. Amen, I love it. Oh yeah, so just just to kind of just touch one little bit on it, exercise what you you mentioned that it should be like a focus not so much on aesthetics but on, like function. Just dive into that just a little bit more.
Kailyn España:Okay, I'll, I'll try to keep it a little so I could talk about this for a while. So I I think that the world of fitness is very much. We look to bodybuilding, even if we don't know it where. It's like okay, you know, you've got the, the, even just the machines that are filled on most of, like, the gym floor, are these isolation exercises that, like, that's what we're focused on? And so, like you know, general populations walking to the gym saying what should I do at the gym? And they're like okay, well, I guess I just sit down and I'll just, you know, put my hands up on something and do a bicep curl, isolate one specific muscle, and it's like okay, well, that is great for bodybuilding. Like great.
Kailyn España:You know that sport you need something where you can isolate those muscles because you're trying to get that like really, really, you know, built in tone to look. But when in your daily life are you going to sit down in a chair and do like this movement, like ever you? Know what I mean.
Kailyn España:And so I am like a huge functional fitness trainer where, when going in the gym, we're just basically practicing how to function better in our daily lives. So squats and is like a functional fitness thing where not necessarily like I mean, I do love a good barbell squat, but like really perfecting, I'm not going to stack a bunch of weight so that I can, you know, have that number of like this is how much I can squat. It's like it's like, okay, I'm going to slow down that movement with lots of intention and like just feel the way that my muscles are moving together.
Aaron O'Connell:Like.
Kailyn España:God created this beautiful body and like it functions in so many incredible ways. It's like I'm going to do exercises that allow me to really kind of focus into my body and and just like I guess, without being like super new age like, but connecting to it you know what. I mean, and like, like meditation, being in the Bible, of like we're slowing down, we're being present and just appreciating God for what he has given us. And that way exercise almost becomes like worship, because we're not just like, oh, oh, like, oh my gosh.
Kailyn España:I'm so, like I'm so ripped, whatever, it's like we're slowing down and noticing, like what God created, and so I love this. I mean mobility is a huge thing too. Just because we do sit a lot, you know, during the day, like we've been sitting here for a little bit, it's like our bodies, like stretches and things like that can kind of lengthen muscles that are really tense because of the nature of just our sedentary you know world. I love incorporating that into exercise too and just anything that is really serving the body, rather than you like you go to exercise so you can. You can like help your body feel better.
Kailyn España:Yeah you're not going to exercise so that you can, you know, exercise like. It's kind of like the man's made for Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath. I want to find a phrase for that with exercise, where it's like exercise is like there because of our sedentary world and we just need to take care of our bodies. Like exercise isn't there for us to like a cheat, like it wasn't something that we have to do.
Aaron O'Connell:It's. You know what I mean I don't know how to phrase it Exactly and like if you look at it, go look at the two and three and four year olds. They have the best squats ever.
Kailyn España:Yes, no bad habits. Yes.
Aaron O'Connell:They literally have their chest up. They don't even, and their and their butt is like a half inch from the ground. They have full. You go, go move a kid and anyway, grab the limbs and just put it and they can go over the head. And that is what people are looking for. That's while they think they are looking for something else, but that's what they truly are needing is those functional ways. And so often, like he says, we're, we're doing patterns of this world, like Romans 12, because that's what body, like you said, bodybuilding is really the standard and it's because, since the bodybuilders could change their bodies that much, there must be truth that we can adapt to change hours. But in that it's a slippery slope Because, like you said, you're doing a bicep curl. You don't do bicep curls unless you're holding on as many groceries as you can for your ego and you're like, hey, look at me, babe, and you just start curling those very specific scenario, but that was from then.
Aaron O'Connell:Again, bodybuilding, because it was just that, showing off which is what bodybuilding is, is just showing off its pride, its comparison, and there is a lot of. You know, I'm not saying you can't be in that and glorify God, but it's very hard to, because you know to not be selfish, not be prideful and all that stuff. Because, like, there's a guy on the internet I won't say his name, I don't like doing that but like he's, he's ripped, you know, and he talks about God. He sounds so amazing, he speaks so much, but then it's like well, here's my regiment and I'm also balancing out my hormones and all these other things. And it's like hey, are you causing your brother to stumble?
Aaron O'Connell:Because, you know, is your way of eating causing your brother, your sister, to stumble? Because Jesus said go out and eat the food that's put before you? Yes, that was from, okay, pigs and these unclean things, but there's still just as meaningful today. Is the way that you're eating, is the way that your goals set up, is the way that you're exercising, is the way that your body looks Actually inspiring people, or are you treating it like, oh, I'm just not good enough. Oh, this is, I'm so fat, I don't have this last little bit and you're so focused on that body building that people automatically be like Well, if he looks things that way about himself, what does he think about?
Kailyn España:me.
Aaron O'Connell:He must think that I'm a fatty, like you know, and it could be at any level. It could be, you know, some somebody that doesn't work out much but is nice and skinny, like I need to work out because I, you know, I just want to get these shoulders, this last little bit and, like someone that doesn't know Lord, are you winning them to Christ? Are you putting them off? Are you pointing it really to Christ and everything that you're doing? Or are you just utilizing Christ to benefit you, to make yourself feel better, that you're still bringing Christ into it, but your actions are actually showing elsewhere.
Kailyn España:That's so good, I think even not to like rag on CrossFit, but no to rag on CrossFit.
Kailyn España:I'm just gonna, I just um I whatever CrossFit has, there's so many different things but what I have noticed about it is that it has made exercise so inaccessible, where, like people actually someone commented on my post recently saying like thanks for making exercise less scary, and I was like exercise was never supposed to be scary. But if we're operating in a way where we're like, all right, I'm going to do this super hard thing and we're like pushing our body to the absolute max, like we're like we're throwing up, like I mean, that was always.
Kailyn España:I used to think that was like oh wow, I got a really good workout in because I like threw up.
Aaron O'Connell:It's like are you jiggling legs going? Yeah, like, oh, I can't walk, I can't walk for a week after.
Kailyn España:Wow, I got a really good workout in. It's like that, I mean. Why is the first question?
Kailyn España:But, second thing is that people then look at that and say, okay, then I can't move my body. If that's what it takes to take care of yourself and be healthy, then I can't do that. And so it's it's. And then, on the contrary to and like, then for me it's like oh, look you know, look what kind of workouts I do, look how hard I can go. Like you know, look how much I push myself, look how dedicated I am, when in reality it's actually. You're really disordered if you think that pushing yourself and eating that way and doing all this stuff is healthy, but everyone else you're saying, hey guys, look at how dedicated I am. And in an to your point of talking about causing your brother to stumble, it's like like then we're causing other people to be, like asking themselves questions about their identity because they can't reach the level that we're at, even though we probably weren't even designed to go to that level in the first place.
Aaron O'Connell:And CrossFit really is a sport. It really is. I did a whole podcast with Wilson Bailey about it and it's like you should. It determines the fittest people in the world. But, like you said, it's making it scary. It's like I don't even like it because it's too stressful. Like, yeah, could I do it? Could it make me feel like some big old dopamine release after I achieved something? Yes, but that's only if my values are strictly built on my performance, which it's not. This is not performance based.
Aaron O'Connell:And even I struggle, even in the, in the religious world, and like the Christianity world is like I have to watch myself to not overpuff myself up, that I have this amazing relationship with Christ, that I read the Bible a lot, I pray. I do all these things because I have to watch myself, because in the context of this podcast, I'll say it all day long this is my territory, you are coming into it and you can. If you're feeling offended I'm not, I don't know who's listening, but the moment I'm around a group of men in a small group, an individual. The last thing I should be thinking about is trying to inspire them by telling them who I am. No love is actionable. I need to ask the question of what would they be able to get the most out of? How can I present myself in my words? So not that I feel that I loved them, no, but they feel loved that. Not that I sound so smart and so amazing, no. How can I break it down in an edible way that they can consume it and get something out of it? And that is really the whole like why I do fitness, because I think fitness, the state of your health, is the state of your life. Like you have no health, you have no life. You it is a direct like mirror of your Christian walk is your health what you're eating, how you're thinking, what you're focused on, it's pride, it's all these things. And that's why I married the two in this whole podcast and everything, because people can get so caught up in into the tree of good and evil. It's tree of good and evil and everything seems to be this good thing.
Aaron O'Connell:Working out harder is good. Go work out hard. No, we offer our bodies as a living sacrifice. Ask yourself the question can I squat down and get down low without struggling to get up? If the answer is no, you should never put a weight on your back and do a squat you know like, and you probably shouldn't be doing leg presses that are super heavy just to overload the muscle because, like you can't even lift your body. It may temporarily make you feel good, but what happens? Up there goes your ACL, up there goes your back. Oh, I got that, I got a pinched nerve, I got this, and then it's 10 times worse. You need to ask yourself. I'm a parent, I just want to stick up with my kids, but every time they go up the stairs, I huff and puff. Great, your workout today is go up the stairs 60 times.
Kailyn España:Period. Like, just like, let's let's stop making it so complicated. Like, if you can't go the stairs, let's practice going up the stairs, going up the stairs.
Aaron O'Connell:You know, if you are worried about your balance, great, let's start doing a little bit more narrow squat, let's maybe walk, work with lunges but you still have handles and start just trying to get low on that, just to get your body to where you don't go. If you are unflexible, go put yourself in the area that you can't flex to and you will get that much better. I can't tell you, I quit personal training, the actual hands on, because I realized I'm not helping anybody. I'm just kind of instilling this thing that may make them feel better, may make them temporarily better, but I just gave them another idol.
Aaron O'Connell:But I do train somebody right now and it's because he is searching the Lord. He is rather new to the faith and not only is it time for me to connect with him in the spiritual realm, but I've realized he's on a path to destruction because he just is doing more and more and more and I had to in most clients. I have to hold them back in the physical realm and the more I can just be stretching on them, like his biggest, hardest leg workout was when I put a 20 pound weight on his back just so he could get back there with his arms and I just have him sit down in the lowest position he possibly can and I just. We did that for like 25, 30 minutes and like all of a sudden he's stretching further down, further down, further down, and he came back.
Aaron O'Connell:He's like dude, I've never felt soreness like this Yet we barely pushed any weight, you know, but we just focus on the weight. There's so many things that we could be doing that aren't going to be the worldly way of success, but is really going to give us what we're needing.
Kailyn España:Yes, I think that it's. I think you said something about pulling people back. I think that sometimes people think about like functional fitness and they're like, oh, that easy stuff, that like boring stuff. But I'm like, if you do a squat body weight squat correctly and at a slow enough tempo, I prompt like you're gonna be feeling it Like you know, I don't care who you are, I don't care if you can squat something crazy, like so I think you know it's, we've it's again, it's that sport, rather than being like, all right, what does my body need? So I just I love that you're doing that with your client.
Aaron O'Connell:And it's. You know it's. Just where are you getting your sense of worth from? Is it from the world? You know? That's why that's a whole tower of babble, like God knew that if we could just be talking amongst each other, so connected with just one language, that we're going to try to be build a tower up to God and may come our own gods. And that is essentially what has happened with social media and all the comparison, everything because we are looking further and further how to feel significant, how to stand out. Everyone's an influencer, right now.
Aaron O'Connell:You know everyone's trying to feel like they're enough, they're important, they achieved something, they're making an impact, they're making a legacy and it's like all that is null and void. Really, you already have access to literally the highest kingdom of the world. You can be an heir to the throne and live forever. You know, it's just. Unfortunately, we are doing what's seven third of Matthew 731 says not to do. Don't think about what you should either drink or wear. These are thoughts that consume unbelievers. Instead, know that God has everything for you. You know, seek first the kingdom of God, live righteously, then everything will be added to you. And as Christians we know that.
Aaron O'Connell:But if we are not doing that, god is actually allowing those negative things to be the warning sign to you. Anxiety, depression, pain, disease, all those things are warning signs that things aren't right In the Old Testament. That's why, if you just had a skin disease, you get out because things aren't right, type of ordeal like get out of here, type of you know, because it's all about protecting. But we have those alarms and we have to start looking at these. These weaknesses boast about our weaknesses, because God's power is made perfect in weakness, rejoicing your trials, so they produce endurance and that which improves, produces character, which produces hope in our God. But we're so quick to just run away from our weaknesses and where we should be focusing on, just so we can get a pat on the back from a trainer or a group fitness or the wrong community that focuses only on the world to make me temporarily feel like I'm doing something. But those people don't care about what you do at home, how you feel, what your mental space is, and unfortunately then what happens is then chemicals are produced in your brain.
Aaron O'Connell:When you're massively depressed, when you aren't in communication, communication with others, when you are, when you are constantly stressed from a workout, you will then be changing the literal chemical makeup of your mind, which then gets in, which is a whole another topic of discussion of like hey, I'm really this way. Look at my brain scans. It's like, okay, you're right, it's going to be hard for you, but that doesn't mean they can't go back this way. It's just you need and you may need medication to get there, you may need therapy to get there. You need to get your eyes opened, utilize the counselors and wise counselors that God has given you to be moving you along that way. You aren't stuck in that way. That is yet another identity and that's why I love God's just saying like nothing's out of reach for him. Nothing's impossible.
Aaron O'Connell:For a miracle still happen. It just you need to have at least a little faith. But no one's doing the thing to even produce the faith. They just look at another human being or another pattern of this world.
Kailyn España:Yes, I was gonna say I'm a, you know well, just to give them their faith.
Aaron O'Connell:But they're not asking that question, saying, Well, what would give me more faith? What do I need to see to feel like I'm progressing?
Kailyn España:That's so good, preach it.
Aaron O'Connell:Well, you know that we're getting right on time about where the normal podcast that I like to end it. Is there any last words, words of encouragement or advice that you would like to give any of the listeners?
Kailyn España:Yeah, I would just say I really love what you were kind of hitting home earlier with community my in my journey of disordered eating and then just body image things and stuff. I have a friend now who kind of walked through a similar situation and so it's it's so important not to have only someone to hold you accountable, but then also someone just to be there to encourage you like right, like in Hebrews 10, talking about like let's not give up meeting together somewhere in the head or doing what. Let us encourage one another. And all the more as we see the day approaching. It's like we need we need people that are there, that can kind of just walk in again, like echoing the father's voice and encouraging us along the way.
Kailyn España:And so she's a friend that I can like message and be like, you know, just talk about you know I mean any struggle or any thoughts or things, and she's able, you know, as I'm trying to hold those thoughts captive, she can speak truth and truth into those areas that you know, and I can do the same for her, and so I think that would be just the biggest takeaway and I and I also say as far as a practical step with that, it's like well, how do you know who's struggling? I'm like like you, you know. How do you know like who?
Kailyn España:you can rely on for that kind of thing, and I think that you know, vulnerability is really stepping into the light and saying, hey, this is a thing I'm struggling with and that that's hard, you know, to like to admit that and to like put it out there. But I wasn't able to find out about that, about her story, until I shared with her my story and she goes oh, me too, and you know. Then now we've been able to grow together and so I'd say, if there's any anything that you're struggling as far as eating disorders or mental health or physical health, exercise, whatever body image it's like, step into the light and allow someone to to speak into that, because the power, first of all the, the power it's holding over you, is diminished, and then and then you have a friend to encourage you, you have a community of believers in that, and so.
Aaron O'Connell:But the first step is just being brave, you know, and doing that and making that first move for sure, and you're going and getting your counseling degree and all that stuff and this, this podcast, is going to be on the internet forever. Well, for as long as I can keep on keeping it on, you know this episode is going to be there. So tell people where they could find you if they want to reach out for you. Maybe they don't have that community, maybe they don't feel safe and you inspired them or whatever. Where could they reach out and get to get to your social media? Your email share that.
Kailyn España:Yeah, my social media is just my first and last name, so it's at Kailinuspania. No periods dots, anything like that Spell that. Okay, my name is Kailinuspaniacom and then ESPANA for Instagram. I like to be engaged on there and then I also kind of my brand or whatever I have. It's a mind and muscle, but it's mind ex musclecom I have.
Kailyn España:Ultimately, I'm still in my studying for counseling and everything that's not going to happen for a couple years. But ultimately I am trying to have a business, that where physical health and mental health are kind of just integrated fully, and so in my personal training practice now I do integrate it as much as I'm allowed to having not being not being a fully licensed counselor at this point to do is call yourself a coach.
Aaron O'Connell:Yeah, right.
Kailyn España:And literally, I mean. That is how it is, Unfortunately.
Kailyn España:And so I mean if, even if it's not mean and you know you're not- that's what you have to look, look for what the people that you're going to be coached by are actually qualified, that they know what they're talking about. Like you know, even I'm just learning so much even just like on people that just have like one personal training certification, what it takes to be a personal trainer is like you can just go online and just take a little test, like you don't have to train.
Aaron O'Connell:You don't have to do that. You can go to certain. If you have your own gym, just open it up in there, you're good.
Kailyn España:Like it's, it's, you can yeah.
Aaron O'Connell:So anyway, all that said, all that said but yeah, I'll just touch in, as you can identify a tree by its fruit.
Aaron O'Connell:We know that as Christians from the Bible. Vet your vet, your coaches, vet your counselors. Look at their fruit. Yes, it may take a session or two or three, but if they're not talking about God, if they're not talking about the healing power of spiritual walking, your spiritual walk with Christ, you're going to be missing out. You know that as a Christian. So search those things out.
Aaron O'Connell:But then those that may have already gone through it, that you, that you can feel the love you can feel safe with, and that's why I'm saying that is, you could be that person. Yes, you are a coach. You are already showing that you were an expert in these, or an expert and have expertise in these areas. So, although you don't have the degree, you're going to be well more qualified and caring and loving, because love conquers all and you got God on your side. If you lack the wisdom, you can just ask for the wisdom, amen.
Aaron O'Connell:And so really I would just challenge the listeners is like reach out to Kaywin, she may be able to help you in that. And if, hey, if you want a male, I'm here as well. I do the same thing. You can reach out to me through the podcast. I don't have to mention my type of things. But if you need that help, I highly suggest to find somebody that you do feel safe, that you trust, that will not lead you astray, that won't give you yet another. Just replace one idol with another idol.
Aaron O'Connell:Because that's what every personal overwhelming majority of.
Aaron O'Connell:I'm telling you of trainers and coaches and all those things. All they're doing is giving you the idol of I'm fat and I need to be skinny, and they'll give it to me. Then it turns into now I need to be first place in my bodybuilding contest and now I need to just make sure that I can eat what I want and still kind of maintain this while doing this, but then, all while comparing myself to I was in competition mode it just becomes yet another idol, another idol. If you truly want to be free, find a coach that not only knows what they're talking about but also is walking firmly on the rock that God has provided us, the church and just in general.
Aaron O'Connell:Jesus.
Kailyn España:Amen, amen. Couldn't have said it better. I love it.
Aaron O'Connell:Awesome, well, thank you so much for joining me, kaelin, it was an absolute pleasure.
Kailyn España:Yes, thank you so much for having me. It was great.
Aaron O'Connell:All right. Thank you all for listening.